| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
320
   |
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
I dont get the heavy nerf to cargo capacity on these ships particularly the JF
You are RAISING the cost of moving goods by 50% with your changes to isotope usage and many of us (now wrongly) thoguht that we could recoup some of that by rigging the JF for additional cargo space.
Now we are rigging just to keep what we had.
This is bad for the game imho - null is already difficult for anyone NEW to get into - its hard for small corps/alliances to set up and they all rely on JF services which will now become even MORE expensive to haul things.
Im sorry but this is a bad change - coupled with TONS of other changes that are not even on SiSi yet that affect the entire fabric of the game and CCP you now have me worried. |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
321
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Jump Freighters currently are over powered and you guys know it. This change is a slight nerf and still leaves the ship incredibly useful.
I agree that they are a bit o/p and can avoid most entanglements - however the change they are making is not the only one - its the 50% increase in fuel costs coupled with a nerf to their cargo that has me wondering. That change was to help offset the POS changes they fear on the isotope markets - but has the net effect of driving up the price of all goods in null. Yes we will be making more things there - but logistics are not done with small haulers or regular freighters roaming about - lets face it the only way to get things around null is to jump.
Its basically going to make any new/small renter corps have to spend even more than they do now.
Not everyone in null has the luxury of a fully stocked station next to their home - though the proliferation of stations these last few years is making that less and less - i still think that raising the costs of living in null will not attract more people out.
They are modifying soooo many industrial things that each have dependencies upon other parts of the game. And these changes were thankfully rolled back to a later release - they are not even on SISi yet for testing.
Im fine with raising the price of everything I sell |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
321
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 17:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Batolemaeus wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote: Yes we will be making more things there How exactly? Am I supposed to extract non-local isotopes from my behind? Will non-local T2 materials into being? Found a praying circle to wish for a divine delivery of non-local rig parts? Perform a summoning of faction modules? Sacrifice a newbie in hopes for plentiful datacore harvest? Wish for decryptors?
Point taken - you are correct - i can see more basic needs being met in null - on the t1/ammo side but anything that requires the luxuries that ONLY exist in high sec markets is going to take its toll - and be more expensive.
Why would I ever do research or anything in null ? Its going to cost me more to stay in null when i can just set up my pos in some ass backwards part of high sec and let my alts toil there.
I can move t2 products around high sec much more efficiently and cheaply so t2 production stays in and around high sec.
And we still end up exporting to null - just costing us more in jump fuel - which in turn ends up being paid by the line grunt - who may or may not see any point in fleeting up anymore since his bomber now costs 100m isk. (im being sarcastic now)
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Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
325
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
what i dont understand is why you nerfed the freighters
could you not have left the stats the same and then built negative modifiers into the rigs?
that way i could fly the ship as is...OR..i could have real choice and nerf it myself
so i want extra hull - lose some cargo and align time
i want more cargo - aling time that makes a dead snail look like an f1 racer
pop a vap trimark on there - drop 10% cargo
i dont know what the actual penalties should be but you could make multiple penalties for using a specifc rig...sine its only capital rigs not many to modify...and then have those penalties affect only freighte/JF type ships
you could add specialized penalties to cap rigs for freighters and let US decide what is acceptable nerf
alternately you could do a fulll reblance and put slots on these and not just rigs
i think the best thing that can be done at this point is to withdraw these changes entirely and give this a rethink
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Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
325
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:what i dont understand is why you nerfed the freighters
could you not have left the stats the same and then built negative modifiers into the rigs? GǪthereby nerfing all capital ships rather than just balance freighters? Yeah, no.
keep reading tippia
i said later that the penalties apply to freighter and jump freighter class vessels
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Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
325
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Lair Osen wrote:Tippia wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:what i dont understand is why you nerfed the freighters
could you not have left the stats the same and then built negative modifiers into the rigs? GǪthereby nerfing all capital ships rather than just balance freighters? Yeah, no. I think he means that the Rigs have inbuilt drawbacks already so why is an extra massive nerf needed? if that is what he means then i would like to point out that the penalties on rigs are small and can further be halved by skills. leaving the stats alone and just adding rigs slots is an absolute buff and power creep. Freighters dnt need buffs, and power creep is bad.
penalties can be increased or skills not applied if necessary
the point of my post is to try to actually give some choice to the ship owner
the current model is to nerf everyone...increase the price of the ships as you have to buy rigs to get back what you had
im saying leave me what i had and let ME chose what nerf I want |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
325
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 16:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:keep reading tippia
i said later that the penalties apply to freighter and jump freighter class vessels That effectively means you're creating a completely separate rig class, which means you've now created more problems and balance issues through your solution. Is the creation of that problem worth it for solving your first perceived issue? Like I said earlier in the thread, if a GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ cascades into new problems that have to have their own special unique tweaks and solutions, chances are that it's not a good solution to begin with, especially when there's already a perfectly serviceable way out. Quote:the point of my post is to try to actually give some choice to the ship owner You have plenty of choice. The entire problem is that some people assumed all along that being given choice would itself come without a cost, but that was never going to happen GÇö choice itself is too valuable, and the full array of choices you can make have to fit in the overall balance of the game. Quote:im saying leave me what i had and let ME chose what nerf I want This solution lets you do that. You're just unhappy with the size of the nerfs your choice leaves you with.
what i find amuzing about your post is that i would bet you either dont own, or even fly a freighter
you probably have nothing to do with logistics or supplying your corp/alliance with goods and ships
for an industrial themed release, kicking people who are responsible for these types of services that make everyones life in null better is a bit daft imho
no where did i say there should not be penalties for modifying a freighter or jump freighter....what i dont like is that they nerf the entire ship then force you to put back the parts you want. I prefer to start with the ship whole and if i want Leave it the way it was or choose to modify it. CCP is fond of saying risk vs reward these changes are 100% risk and 0% reward since all the changes do is increase the value of a km by addi expensive rigs to it |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
326
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 21:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:lombodo wrote:Just out of curiosity....
I fly a Freighter, I should not carry more than a bil worth in cargo to make it worth while for gankers (probably pre-talos rule)
With the current changes, I buy the HP rigs and which cost around 1-15b so technically gankers no longer need any cargo value to make any gank cost effective?
If I am wrong please let me know but it seems like I really shouldn't bother hauling anything due to risk vs reward. Rigs don't drop. In case people are wondering where we are, we're talking with Fozzie, and keeping an eye on the thread, to pick out good posts.
good to hear
i think for many freight and logistics stuff is just boring, but it is essential to the economy and the game. making some of these things harder does not seem to make that game any bettter. lets face it piloting a freighter is simlly boring game play.....making that game play cost billions more than it currently does with zero return is just daft
i think this should be shelved - look what CCP came up with when the t1 halulers were actually reblanced....some of thise changes are awesome...mineral haulers, pi specialists etc... that battle nereus is bloody brilliant.
i would rather CCP take the time and look at all the options for this than rush into a lets add rigs option. One that lets the player make decisions about cost and effectiveness. Not one that nerfa an entire class and then forces you to spend billions to get back what you had.
perhaps there could be cargo control by putting specialized holds on freighters....ie only soo much general cargo...maybe a fleet hanger.....or a rig to add a specialized bay
that is all outside this current discussion but i think that we should not proceed with this current change without thinking about the whole gamit of options.....we have waited this long to even consider changing freighters and stuff up...i have zero problem waiting longer to get it done right |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
335
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 21:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
thank you
this provides a much more flexible and affordable option to fitting
in addition the player has much more choice in terms of deciding how much nerf vs tank vs speed they want and the ability to change it as their needs change without having to drop billions on rigs
there is only one small issue with the freighters and others have mentioned it - that the armour freighters end up at the higher end of the spectrum in terms of ehp than the two that have more shield. Although it might not seem like much, anyone who can so the math is going to recommend that you choose to train the armour versions vs the shield variants. Every bit of protection and advantage helps.
i suspect that over time we will end up with two heavily used freighter types and two used less
that being said its minor - overall the approach is much better than the previous iteration, ty CSM and Fozzie |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
336
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 23:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
(insert HallmarkGäó moment)
(tears)
I luvs my new tiny cargo hold freighter with bits of tank and alignment mods
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Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
336
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 00:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Go play with the changes on SiSi they are there :)
I can soooo see one of the first KMs is going to be a purple or blue fitted freighter (yes gankers there stuff for you too in these changes)
Being able to fit the armor repper was also a nice surprise :)
Lots of fun
+1 from me overall
though i still think we need to figure out something for the shield tanked freighters there is nothing you can really fit on those to increase resists or shield tank that has zero or 1 CPU. I may be trading in the old Fenrir fleet for some armor tankies. |
Regan Rotineque
Arch Angels Assault Force
The Kadeshi
336
|
Posted - 2014.05.23 04:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Bunch of other stuff
We don't need another 'mining barge'-style balance round.
Time to dial back the stats.
really? mining barge changes were great - and guess what - they still blow up
I suspect that MANY will not take advantage of the opportunity to add tank - and will make their giant space winnebago's even more squishy with 3x t2 cargo holds
Or blow a few bills on officer fits :)
These changes are win win - those who fit and fly smartly benefit - those who prey on the fitting challenge benefit so you have to get another catalyst or two to gank one.....big deal
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